old belgian gun makers

old belgian gun makers

Very long barrel. 3 vols. Their proof marks are two feathers, or curved branches, crossed with letters in the angles of the cross so formed. Members . Breechloaders had existed previously, but Casimir Lefaucheuxs 1835 invention of the pin-fire cartridgea cylinder with a pin extending at right angles to the base which detonated a fulminate charge in the cartridgequickly led to better breechloading systems and to the development first of rimfire and then of centerfire cartridges.Dating pin-fire guns: the 1835 date of Lefaucheuxs invention gives us a convenient terminus a quo: if the pin-fire wasnt invented until 1835, any pin-fire gun cannot be earlier than 1835. Clment Charles Philibert 1 On the chamber or or lock on muzzle loading which has passed final black powder proof. The Fora platform includes forum software by XenForo. As the old saying has it, "The buyer needs a thousand eyes; the seller, only one." Hand Guns 24 Rifles-Shotguns 22 . Hand Guns 9 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . Clement, Charles Pistol and revolver manufacturer in Liege, Belgium, c.1886-1914. Provisional black powder proof for breech loading guns, since 1924 reserved for smooth bore barrels. Burlet The other side of the coin is that quality can indeed be there in Belgian guns: The Belgian Browning Superposed were all fine guns, whilefirms like Francotte, Dumoulin, or Lebeau-Courallycould make guns of very high quality indeed. I'll test it very cautiously. No maker's name anywhere? Made in Belgium, circa 1890, cracked stock with pistrol grip, old refinish to action. Proof marks are the official stamps or ciphers showing that a barrel has been properly tested with the prescribed excess charges of powder and ball that allow a large factor of safety to the user. Mark for optional superior provisional proof. It could be of relatively recent manufacture. Hunting, fishing, cooking, and other critical aspects of life. Can be without star and ring. Double Take: Gorgeous Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns - Field & Stream Made in Colton N. Y. probably around the 1860s. If you have a question or would like more information, please call (877) 214-9327 or email info . Please someone let me know that they know about these Belgian doubles! Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! I have two sets of wood handles and artillery holster with marks of 7 ; 44; 105C. In contrast to Walther, Mauser did not start over with serial numbers at the . is about 30 cm X 22 cm (11.80" X 8.60"). I'll restrict myself therefore tosaying something about gun making in Belgium and offering some proof marks. Savage continued to build guns under the A.H. Fox name into the 1940s. location, rather than a manufacturer. Do you have any information on them? Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. Made in the USA: A List of where gun makers manufacture Now represents definitive black powder proof except for muzzle loaders, This mark is found on barrels and locks after voluntary semi-smokeless proof, Standard smokeless powder proof on military rifles below 8mm caliber.1898-present, Standard smokeless proof for all arms.1903-present, Mark applied to barrels which failed proof and have returned to makers for reworking. After years of looking at and trying late 1880's to early 1890's, .22 caliber rim fire 22 1/2 octagonal barrel, carved walnut stock, iron furniture. List of firearm brands - Wikipedia On top between the barrels "CANONS ACIER GARANTI". 29 Classic Guns: Old Rifles, Collectible Shotguns, and - Field & Stream presented below is the first of the series and is covering the gunmakers whose names are 1860-1870. The first cipher is the crossed branches surmounted by a crown, and with a cross or star in the three other angles. This mark is found on guns that is not made in Belgium by countries that use proofs that is not recognized by the Belgian Proof House. The Modern Shotgun. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. Rifles & Musket Information. The first type of testing we will study is the Proof Test. Belgium Belgian Proofmarks Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. to identify antique arms from different parts of the world, we decided Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand It is was built using a very thick so that means it is for sure a 12 gauge? Do check with a gunsmith before you shoot it! Chaumont M.J. Shotguns became popular after the U.S. Army used them during the First World War while close-range fighting in trenches. Some proved pieces exist, and are marked in the case of revolvers with the letters U.S., in the case of other arms with the letters V.P. in the A to C range of the alphabetical order. Misc. Bernard Lambert I would be grateful to any lover of arms who possesses authentic dated weapons, or has catalogued a private collection, if he would send to me, in care of my publishers, any such information which will add to the mass of fact available. to identify the manufacturer. 10 Biggest American Gun Companies Share a Rich History - Wide Open Spaces L. L. Hepburn percussion combination rifle, .36 cal. will it take normal 12 gauge shells then? Using a shotgun shell (a self-contained cartridge with multiple small, sphere-shaped projectiles) instead of a usual bullet is what makes a shotgun a separate kind of a gun. Bodson TH. of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most typical pieces of his We present shotguns with a wide variety of features, technical characteristics, and prices from the worlds best companies, such as Chiappo, Italy; Tar Ideal Concept LTD, Israel and the leader of Chinese gun-industry - China North Industries Corp. (NORINCO). This will be an on going Reply rdlowe Pilgrim Joined Dec 11, 2015 Messages 236 Reaction score 190 Location Dallas TX Dec 21, 2018 #3 curator said: 1891 - present 16 Barrel weight in grams of nitro proofed shotguns. Since the U.S. has no proofing houses (as in England, France, Germany and . Andr M.J. Caliber 15mm, length 122cm. Too, seems to be an odd, long cut in the standing breech for the Greener Crossbolt. In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers' Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Chartier It was used by a myriad of hunters for all kinds of wild game. Bazin F.J. Volunteer arms co. on October 29, 2020: 16 gauge serial number is 90524xe what would it be worth and how old is it. Double gun shotguns - Side by Side shotguns, and over under shotguns - Including drillings, double barreled rifles, SxS double rifles, combination guns. The laws were remodelled in 1849, and definite rules as to powder charges laid down, and the cipher, as shown on the right [below], granted as sign of definite proof. Whatever type of shotgun you want to add to your collection, you can be sure to find just what you're looking for here. Consignment Sale Information. Worldwide Logistics for all your products. I will try to upload a pic if it'll let me. PDF BELGIAN PROOF MARKS - - Hunting.be Bertrand Joseph %PDF-1.3 Pricing Guides & Dictionary of Makers Marks for Antiques & Collectibles. A great deal of painstaking research work is necessary before a list of armourers marks applied to pistols can be compiled, but I have every hope of preparing such a list at a future date when peace is restored in Europe and the great museum collections are accessible. I have pics of the Proof marks I want to show you. Hand Guns 5 Rifles-Shotguns 1 . Today's biography is a guest post by our friend Robert White - thanks, Robert! Sorry I can't be more helpful. Antique Shotguns & Belgian Shotguns Side by Side - Collectors Firearms And I have a photo taken at Winchester, TX with Maj. Thomas Doan during the Dusty March, July 1863, Dechard, TN. Old Belgian musket help | The Muzzleloading Forum Antique Pistols and Handguns for Sale | Collectors Firearms Information, NRA Paypal, Order We offer a wide variety of antique firearms for the antique gun collector. Original handmade flintlock & percussion ("cap & ball") firearms . A forum community dedicated to all firearm owners and enthusiasts. Belgian Liege gunmakers (D to F) - Volume 2. That last photo will give you an idea of the relative thickness of the stock at the wrist - typical Brit (Belgian) 4 1/8th inch in circumference! A Adaptive Tactical Shotguns American Tactical Shotguns B Baikal Shotguns Barrett Shotguns Benelli Shotguns Beretta Shotguns Blaser Shotguns Browning Shotguns C Century Shotguns Charles Daly Shotguns Chiappa Shotguns As I've said, I'm not an expert. Bovy Thodore Joseph There are a total of [ 71 ] Belgium Infantry Arms List (Current and Former Types) entries in the Military Factory. Can you add any details? it was my grandfathers and has been in the family for a while. The examiner must rely on proof marks when trying to identify these firearms. Classic Arms Importers and manufacturers of blackpowder guns and kits, located in Palmer, Massachusetts. Classic Guns: Great American Double-Barrel Shotguns - Gun - Gun Digest Since it reads >>Made in Belgium<< on the side of the tubes it was made for export. Prices: side-by-side, from 53,000 + VAT; over-and-under, from 65,000 + VAT. Revolvers are marked on barrel, on the frame, and on each chamber. Does it reach the touch hole? But despite the history the belgian proof stamps are rather straight forward, normally one can't get more information from the proof more than it has been done if one can't find the inspectors mark. Burrard, Major Sir Gerald. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding. You can easily choose the shotgun you need on Ammoterra.com. So the only indicator of the chamber depth is found with the stamp of the Chamber dimensions? It passed proof for nitro which at the time would have been a service pressure of about 9,000 psi. Gun Barrel Proof Marks - Dave Cushman You can tell an unaltered pin-fire by the vertical slot in the breech extending to the top of the barrel (and, of course, the absence of a firing pin). [Later note: Gerhard Wirnsberger has written. "Arsenal" or "Inspector Marks". Underneath the whole appears the word St. Etienne. Antique Gun List Antique Guns and Firearms including Antique Hand Bertrand Antoine & Fils is 1.220 kg (43.00 oz). Their cipher or mark was the letters G.P. cases. country requiring that weapons sold within the respective country, and thanks for the help so far. Some sharp photos might help; send them to (ghcox3@gmail.com). Without a photo, I can't add anything to what you already know: it's a handgun made in Belgium. (most sales were in the 1930s). Just got hold of a 12gauge apparently belgian shotgun with a mark reading AB and an M below, surrounded by a small circle with a crown on top. Can't help much w/o some photos (send to ghcox3@gmail.com). Bernard Henri Eugne Weight of proofed barrels, after 1924 fractions of grams no longer used. Please - no questions about your old guns. I found a couple on this site and also nramuseum.com leading me to believe its a British or Belgian gun. The one on the far right is the definite proof for nitro, or smokeless powder. Christophe Henri Courard On barrel action of breech loading shotgun after the gun has passed proof with semi-smokeless powder . In its small version its a acceptance mark on barrels that was exported in a unfinished state 1846-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small pistols and revolvers barrels 1866-1893, In its small version its a black powder mark on small revolvers cylinders 1866-1893. European&other - Long Guns - Bolk Antiques Greetings Easthampton,I have been researching an old antique pistol that has been in our family for generations.What leads me to your group was the Hits and Misses article posted in 2014; on Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks (my piece has the spelling Belgium). Arendt Maurice Seen below are samples of Proof Marks of different countries. JavaScript is disabled. Sixteen-gauge guns generally fall somewhere in between. Their total production was around 180,000 guns. Ateliers Saint Laurent, Bauwir Joseph Liege, in Belgium, has always been celebrated for its weapons, and established its proof house as a municipal enterprise on May 10, 1672, when it was laid down that barrels should be marked with the stamp of the city, and unproved weapons might not be sold under pain of a fine of a gold florin and the confiscation of the unproved barrel. Belgian proofs are among the oldest and have a very long history. Markus, clearly your gun is from 1943, but look, you have used a 2011 old post. Baron Emile I have a Belgium 38-40 with a 7 in barrel all matching. These firearms are cottage industry type weapons without a specific brand name. proof marks. Applied to all guns made but not proofed in Belgium - sent to an other country proof facilities. Since 1924 used on all rifled arms. On barrels and actions of smoothbore guns with the gauge size (or nominal bore) plus the shell or cartridge case length. Ithaca Gun Company: One of America's most successful gun makers. I think the barrels of that gun are solid steel, and the marking would seem to bear that out, but the gun should be examined by a knowledgeable gunsmith before firing with modern ammunition. The crown R and star P stamped on the barrel, receiver, and cylinder. Are you sure they are Damascus and not perhaps fake Damascus made by etching a spiral pattern on solid steel barrels for those who liked the look of Damascus? significance or purpose. Example of inspectors mark, any letter can be used with a crown. Side by side shotguns of this era are highly collectable and our inventory changes frequently. If I was asked for a guess for a dollar I would say mid 1930's. The drawings vary in style due to differences in the original information.Most are black silhouettes, but some of those that have been produced from photographs have a quasi 3 dimensional appearance that requires the onlooker . Do you have any knowlege of pinfire double barrels? Search. Mechanicsburg, PA: Stackpole Books, 2008. Christophe & Montigny My best guess is that it's a maker's mark, but of course I could be wrong. There's no brand name on it (I've been p and down it 100 times) it does say laminated barrel and that's it. All 31 Belgian gun makers, Belgium dealers and sellers and suppliers rifle,over a 12 ga. shotgun. The gun belonged to HH Nawab Ahsanullah. Beau, I need help finding out more about this pistol.. leg in a circle star over the k in 3 places and a crown over jj and the name j. Cueruy and NR under the grip. There is a lot of glare in the photo of the barrels' "water table" The left (right as viewed upside down, and likely the tighter choked) barrel seems to read "18.4 (bore size in mm) choke 18.2". since 1929 Eibar admission proof for guns with old marks since 1929 Eibar proof used in . Please note! Order this book online and pay it through Proof and Armorers' Marks - The Book of the Pistol Coleye M. N. Hits and Misses: Deciphering Belgian Proof Marks - Blogger Ancion Marx Anonymes and an eagles head. Bonzon & Arents & Cie Belgian Shotgun Identification Guide | Shotgun Forum Price guide for BELGIAN FLOBERT SINGLE SHOT RIFLE: Circa It is located just above the circle with ELG. So the barrel strength would be just a bit less than "modern" barrels; but not the corrosion resistance of Winchester Nickel Steel or AISI 4140. Needless to say, I bought the gunand it will never be for sale as long as I am alive. Carl, I've checked Wirnsberger's Standard Directory of Proof Marks as well as those listed at Cornell Publications, and came up empty handed. The crowned R was for revolvers after semi-smokeless proof and 50 % excess pressure. I had a gunsmith replace some springs and open the choke. The third is a plain stamp, with the letters A.V.E. American gun manufacturers moved away from Damascus barrels and on to tubes made from fluid steel. If not, consider it loaded and potentially dangerous. Subcategories This category has only the following subcategory. Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. JavaScript is disabled. The 'z' most likely is an inspector's mark indicating satisfactory quality for this part: in this case, a revolver cylinder--that's my best guess, anyway. Broqua & Scholberg Help to identify old belgium shotgun please | Shotgun Forum Beckers G. Spesco was based in Atlanta, GA, and imported a variety of reproduction and modern guns in the 1960's and 70's.It would be a good idea to check that the rifle is unloaded. If there is no Lion over PV, the gun was NOT proved for smokeless powder. Bouquin Ad Post request for quotation and get multiple offers from manufacturers, 155MM HE 107 Full Zone 8 Charge with Electronic Fuze, Large quantity of surplus guns and exotic guns, BA 312 Semi-Auto Magazine Tube Tactical Shotgun, BA 912 Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto (2 Different Mold), BA 912 Special Cerakote Bullpup Mag-Fed Semi-Auto Shotgun. Ray D, STOGERS, advertised them as being made for the AFRICAN tribes to hunt with because with them they would not be able to rebel against the BELGIAN rulers who had modern arms. Liege, Belgium has been a gunmaking center for centuries. Clment Walter Since the evolution of the modern side-by-side and over/under hammerless shotguns in the late 19th Century, Belgian gunmakers have turned out some of the best. Are also discussed the many markings found applied on the guns and their Knowledge of commonly used military ammunition assists Clment-Neumann A.H. Fox guns came in 12-gauge, 16-gauge, and 20-gauge. Carl Russell & Co Gunmakers Ltd, Stable Yard, Hatfield Park, Hatfield, Hertfordshire AL9 5NQ. A strong good product that will last for long usage in your I'm not familiar with the proof mark you describe, although a French one exists of AR with a three-pronged crown above, used for smokeless powder proof (but no M). The proof marks shown below will assist in determining nationality of manufacturers when no other markings are evident. I live in Tennessee and would love help on identifying this gun down to the year and place made. Very little: I'm assuming it isn't a muzzleloader but a breechloader, which means it could be as early as 1860-1865, say. only 70 i see is the 70above the D = above where it says 20.7 i dont know what those numbers mean. this book online and pay it through Paypal. the examiner in determining the caliber designation of a military - Galoppin A reader hasasked me to say something aboutBelgian proof marks. Belgium - Shotguns Come join the discussion about optics, hunting, gunsmithing, styles, reviews, accessories, classifieds, and more! carefully bound by threads. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 By Alain Daubresse This printed and hardbound book, written in English and French by Alain Daubresse, provide an extensive insight about the gunmaking activity in Belgium from its very beginning to the middle of the 20th century. The crude VIII on each barrel aren't proof marks but a means to ensure matching tubes for this set of barrels. Sorry! Hand Guns 2 Rifles-Shotguns 0 . One of the lesser known of the Belgian handgun makers was Jean Warnant but he was a creative designer and the British Thornton's Patent for a double action revolver lock work was actually originally his idea for which he applied for a patent in Belgium in 1874 and that patent was granted in 1875. "Proofs" as they are sometimes referred to have changed over Wish I could be more helpful! Applied to all gun not made in Belgium but proofed in Belgium. Some of the links in the first post are inactive and can not be edited. Biography: Henri & Nicolas Pieper - Forgotten Weapons with this information in an attempt to clear up some wrong information cardboard cover and the paper used for the printing was of the high glossy type and Jacquemart-Pirotte Joseph Jamar & Cie Jamar Frres Jamar Jean Henri Jamar J. H. & Soleil & Smits Jamar-Smits Jean Henri Jamar Michel Jamin Marcel Jamri J. H. Jans Jansen Adolphe Janssen Fils & Cie Janssen Frres Janson Auguste Jaspar J. JBL Job T. Joiris Joiris & Geurten Joiris Jean, Vandenbergh G & Geurten J. Joiris Joseph Jolet Joseph Those are about the only other possible sources of information, and probably won't narrow it down much more than what we know: second half of the 19th century, but before 1892.Best,GerryBest. Spain depended for long upon the proof of individual armourers, and most Spanish barrels were marked with the stamp of the maker set in a square or oblong block under a crown. Proof Marks or Sorry for the delay in getting back to you, Brandon, but I've been out of the country w/o internet access. "Cueruy" could be the maker. )t/!Z $e9]DG=Ljr%@6) 8F&Kx[2l~WY7#|9&~L~G3jjV?~2SN?2&=qb'3d0W>l#G2;/|D)c~liS>2lVbD""L0M7;Q"gd)g"G{\3efBd. Fakes and fraudulentmakers' marksare not a recent invention--note what William Greener said in 1835 (seemy earlier post of April 20, 2014). Colette Victor Braekers Charles & Cie Proof Just because a long gun from Belgium is a flintlock, therefore, doesn't necessarily mean that it's "of the period," as antique dealers say. Makers - Darne, Merkel, Arrieta, Beretta, Browning, Holland, Purdey, Richards, Bernardelli, Parker, Fox, LC Smith, and most other double barreled shotgun, gun and double rifle makers. 1890, double bbl shotgun, 12 ga, 30" bbls. Home | Login | Register. The date stamps is not used on all guns, otherwise that is the most accurate. Choke constriction, together with barrel dimension this can give a brief view of the choke. The second is the crossed branches, with the letters A.E. that we have found on this subject. Shotguns - Belgium Double for sale - Guns International Comblain I'm a ypunger collector/gun activist. The family was in the barrel making business from the 1880's until mid the 1960's. http://www.littlegun.be/arme belge/artisans identifies d/a delcour dupont gb.htm This is Jean-Baptiste Delcour-Dupont and his son Oscar, 1924. I will have to upload some pictures later when I get to my computer. On barrels of breechloading shotguns after final black powder proof. I'm very excited and can't wait for some replies. Entries are listed by initial year of service descending, then grouped by designation (A-to-Z) to better showcase a given country's evolution in the field of infantry arms. marks tell the country of origin of the weapon. Comblain H. J. Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1 - HLEBOOKS.com Each gun maker is presented with the maximum of data available and a wealth of color pictures about the most . Anyone else know? Military firearms can be difficult to identify because they Long Beach, CA: Safari Press, 2000. Are Damascus-Barreled Shotguns Safe to Shoot? Thomas Jefferson. British gunmakers of the 21st century - The Field The mark was seldom requested, Chamber dimensions in millimeters shotguns undergoing smokeless proof. I believe you'll find that the E in a diamond symbol is the mark used by the Timothy Eaton company of Toronto Canada. old belgian gun makers - Telecore Digital Outdoor Hub, LLC (d/b/a Carbon Media Group), 30800 Telegraph Rd, Suite 1921, Bingham Farms, MI 48025 USA. gunmakers treated in this first volume are : Albini BraendlinAncion & C or E.C. Drue, yes, the absence of rifling means that this pin-fire was used for shot.Pin-fires represent an important stage in the development of firearms. No small part of the Belgians' remarkableability to meet the demands of a wide variety of firms trading all over the world was their willingness to go on producing type of guns that were obsolete. the 20th century. He received his technical training in Soest and then in Warstein. On January 27, 1910, in Liege, a Justice of Peace heard a case of gunmaker's employee Joseph Bury vs. La Zurich insurance company. Some older foreign M855 Green Tip, Didn't find what you were looking for? The system of proof in Great Britain was as follows: In England, the second charter of the Gunmakers Company granted in 1672 marked the beginning of the official proving of arms, but it did not apply to weapons made elsewhere in the Kingdom, provided they were not offered for sale in the London market. Dallas, Donald. It means it's a 12 gauge that has been proofed with black powder. Thanks Brandon. Armourers marks are quite distinct from proof-marks, and comprise the private marks, ciphers, stamps, or signatures of the individual armourers or gunsmiths. Or any info? Some were sold in Stoeger catalogs in the early 60s. Thank y'all for your help ahead of time! SCH or EC is abbreviations of the powder: SCH meaning Schultze. [more like this] Belgian Flobert Style Warnant 8mm Parlor. Search. JavaScript is disabled. The 12.65 I take to mean 12 gauge with 2 1/2" chambers (70 would be the modern 2 3/4"). A Beginner's Guide to Collecting Vintage Side-by-Side Shotguns Home | Login | Register. The slot for the pin had to be welded up and a firing pin installed.I dont know when pin-fire cartridges ceased being manufactured, but Id guess they were still available until the early twentieth century. R. Medina on October 31, 2020: ttn intnl model 1878 s/n 4751. michael v ventimiglia on October 30, 2020: new england firearms ( N G 001039 ) model r22 ultra mini. determination. Gun Proof Marks, Stamps and Date Codes - firearmsguide Category:Firearm manufacturers of Belgium - Wikipedia Birmingham did not establish its proof houses until 1813, and though another Act was passed in 1815 to strengthen the former, the laws were not stringent enough, and the Birmingham proof was not recognized as sound until much later, when the Act of 1855, still unsatisfactory, and the eventually satisfactory one of 1868, was passed. Closset Louis . http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowl m/www/home, https://www.hunting.be/wp-content/uploads/2020/02/Belgian-Proof-Marks.pdf, Belgian Liege gunmakers (A to C) - Volume 1, https://docs.google.com/document/d/17yC Xntqw/edit, https://www.dropbox.com/sc/0sf7osf1dtg1s3r/AABKOd3k4GaQV_ppAci4eWNka, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGA g=PA52&lpg, http://www.cip-bobp.org/homologation/en _type_id=7, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=471622, https://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/viewto 5&t=474548, https://books.google.com/books?id=5fxGAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA53, http://www.littlegun.be/arme%20belge/ar a%20gb.htm, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3618, https://www.cornellpubs.com/old-guns/it em_id=3202.

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