kerdi membrane over cement board
kerdi membrane over cement board
If you choose to use Aquadefense as a shower pan liner, be sure to continue it up the walls at least 6", tying into your waterproofing on the walls. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. Yes, Schluter membranes can go over cement board. Using self-leveling underlayment takes careful prep work. Is it ok to fasten a shower surround to Schluter Kerdi curb? The foam core surrounded by synthetic cloth on both sides and adhered with resin glue is. So long as the seams and joint areas are properly prepared, the panels can also provide waterproofing. Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . It is a fast process that is hard to mess up if you do it right. Cement board, Wedi board, Kerdi board, Hardibacker, Densshield, Durock, Permabase, or Wonder board . We waterproof the outside the hardiboard in 99% of the install with something like redgard. Kerdi Board panels have a number of other advantages: they can be cut to size using an ordinary utility knife, can be glued or screwed into place, and are very lightweight. What is a word for the arcane equivalent of a monastery? Seams and joints should also be waterproofed and caulked to prevent water from seeping through. The fastest method [for me and possibly other dilettants] is to stroke the knife at a diagonal to the comb marks, top down, center out, pushing all the air before you with short, overlapping strokes.-Thinset needs to be pretty darn wet: Needs to stay put when combed, but should be soft and shiney. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. @JimmyFix-it - hardiboard is not really porous unless it is completely saturated. Additionally, seal the space around any pipes and fixtures that can be found in the shower. Finally, make sure to select a thinset that is appropriate for the job, check the manufacturers recommendation, and always follow the instructions on the product label. It allows you to easily and quickly create tile-ready elements in bathtub surrounds and platforms, vanities, showers, shelving, and much more. Installing cement board involves placing the boards atop a layer of thinset adhesive, a process known as bedding. Personnaliser mon exprience l'aide de cookies, Landscape Architects & Landscape Designers, Outdoor Lighting & Audio/Visual Specialists, epoxy or marine paint over greenboard for my shower walls (not tile), Need advice on bathroom remodel - using hardiebacker boards, HELP! Wedi showers feature a pre-sloped base that is already installed. Whether or not you need a Kerdi membrane is a factor of use. Kerdi does admit that you can use cement board. The kerdi membrane will probably do the same, and its regularly installed over drywall which is probably less stable. This will ensure that the coating sticks to the cement board. Send us an email: , What type of thin-set mortar should I use when installing Schluter, Using a Prefabricated Shower Tray and Ramp. I think it is engrained in me to do that so I forget to mention it. Even the tiling subs have moved away from mortar walls because of the labor cost and lack of craftsmen in the industry. Installation instructions vary depending on the type of Kerdi membrane being used, but typically the membrane is applied directly to a clean, dry plywood surface that is free from dust, dirt, and other debris. A square foot of half-inch thick cement board weighs roughly 40 ounces, while the equivalent area of a Wedi board weighs about 75% less. Well, DH said he had virtually no time to work with the stuff before it dried out, so he switched from my spritz bottle to a sponge. Cut the Kerdi membrane to size using a utility knife or scissors. ;). #2 - Your suggestion has plenty of merit though. How to adhere edge of bullnose tile to drywall as trim for shower/tub surround. This allows for future compression and an area at the corner where things are more forgiving. Step 6: Choosing the Next Tile. When it comes to using thinset with Schluter products, the Schluter-Systems website recommends using unmodified thin-set mortars specifically designed for use with Schluter membranes. RedGard, on the other hand, is a liquid waterproofing membrane made by Custom Building Products. No, you do not need to install a vapor barrier, as Kerdi Board is the vapor barrier. craft paper or plastic is great if the inspector wants it but it is (should be) doing nothing for a tub surround that has HB/redgard/thinset/tile. Any competent tile contractor would float the wall in mortar giving you a stronger, level, perfectly flat, and square surface to properly install tile. The Kerdi is essentially replacing the backerboard. This will help protect the cement board from water damage, and is often a specific type of coating designed for use with cement boards. When I tried to use the edge of my trowel [per schlutter video] I could see I was pulling a lot of the 'felt' off the backer. Kerdi membrane prevents water damage and mold development. The 30-in. And second, since its foam, the board is super easy to cut with just a utility knife. The taping knife at a low angle makes an enormous difference, and I'm very grateful for that hint. If I go the kerdi membrane route, do I still need to tape the joints before installing the kerdi membrane . I imagine we could share some good stories. Modified thin-set mortars must dry for the polymers to coalesce and form a hard . And we are using a drippy mixture, it slides off the trowel. More waste, yes, but I think you have to have a LOT of practice to hang those huge sheets like mongo does. This is often accomplished by filling any holes and cracks in the wall with appropriate spackling or patching material. You just need a hammer and wonderbar for the walls. Houzz utilise des cookies et d'autres technologies de suivi similaires pour personnaliser mon exprience utilisateur, me proposer du contenu pertinent et amliorer ses produits et services. Rolling pin, good, now I can throw away my magnesium float.LOLCasey. Let's start! It's a lightweight polystyrene board faced with Kerdi that comes in various thicknesses that you can use in place of drywall or cement board. There are many different types of underlayment to choose from, but they all serve the same purpose. When installing Schluter Kerdi Membrane over cement backerboard: Should I use Alkali Resistant Mesh Tape and thinset on the seams of the backer board (for long term durability to prevent each board moving independently thus preventing cracking) prior to installing the Kerdi membrane. When applying thin-set mortar, the manufacturers instructions should be followed closely. It could take longer if the space is particularly wet or humid. Backerboard plus a waterproofing membrane like Redgard is all that is needed for tub surrounds with thinset then tile. Plus, if you use the mold and moisture resistant drywall, it will be extra insurance against mold. Yeah it seems that the only products that will be compatible with cement board and the kerdi membrane are bostik ditra-set and schluter all-set (or one of schluters other products). Putting this stuff on walls is difficult and time . The site is called floorelf.com. When it comes to tile underlayment, your options can be categorized into three main classifications, each suitable for different tiling circumstances: Although cement board is the most commonly used underlayment for tile, Kerdi board is growing in popularity as a multifunctional tile substrate. How can I find out which sectors are used by files on NTFS? I look at ceramic tile as a lifetime-of the house-product, so I use the best material for the job.I prefer to use cement board as the substrate with the Kerdi on top. Yes, you need waterproofing behind shower tile. To ensure that the Kerdi is completely dry prior to tiling, inspect the inside of the membrane for any signs of moisture or condensation. I appreciate your help and your quick response. Installation is simple- just trowel a layer of thin-set adhesive on the floor and embed the mat in it, then fill the cavities with thin-set. #2. Can I put Kerdi board over drywall? Once the adhesive has been applied and has had time to properly cure, then the KERDI membrane can be applied to the wall. What? There is no cutting or fitting of boards, and a mortar bed is good for leveling and flattening uneven or out-of-level floors, which are common in old houses. It is important to waterproof Hardie board to make it more water-resistant, as well as to protect the materials from the elements. New England. No bulges either, but definetly no thin spots.-Not paying attention to the direction of the comb. Making statements based on opinion; back them up with references or personal experience. I always install it over cement board or backerboard, never over drywall, even blueboard or the mold resistant greenboard. My idea is to block in and install the tub in the existing corner, erect the new wet wall, and use hardi-backer to shim the wall out over the tub flange, then apply kerdi over the whole thing.Does kerdi take offense at being installed over hardi? They are absorbed into the surface material and help keep moisture away from the substrate surface. How do you show the depth of a hole in a drawing? We ended up sponging the Hardi and wetting and booking the Kerdi (a la wallpaper), and that made the installation go much smoother. Kerdi Board is expensive, but I can justify it because it saves time, and it's a joy to use. Kerdi can be installed first on drywall or cement board. If done according to manufacturers instructions, it will seal nicely. Kerdi-Board panels allow the installer to prepare and create a broad range . It is also essential that cement board joints and fasteners be sealed and waterproofed with the Kerdi Fix sealant to help prevent water from leaking into the wall and floor cavities. Install the drain adapter, if needed. A 1/2-inch thick, 3 x 5 foot sheet weighs just 7-1/2 pounds, compared with 45 pounds for a similar size sheet of cement board. Plus, most self-leveling formulas harden very fast, so you have to plan carefully so you can mix and pour quickly. Like the example above. Yes, KERDI membrane will stick to cement board. We tried adding water to the thinset, we tried using a larger notch trowel, but nothing seems to make the Kerdi stick. You have to seal every little hole in the floor so the underlayment doesnt seep into spaces below. When it comes to installation, a Schlter system is typically easier to install than a cement board, and it also allows for more design freedom as it does not require a traditional waterproof layer. Yes, Hardie board needs to be waterproofed. Is this overkill? GoBoard is a kind of backer board because the main elements of a backer board are cement, silica, fiberglass, etc. Bulk update symbol size units from mm to map units in rule-based symbology. The Ditra uncoupling design is lightweight, durable, and minimizes the possibility of cracked tile and grout. In . This liquid waterproofing solution does more than keep water away, it also promotes tile adhesion and prevents cracking. x 33 ft. Waterproofing Membrane: Kerdi-Board 1/2 in. Your air bubbles will travel along the valleys you've made, and it's way better if you only have to move them 20 inches to the nearest edge rather than all the way from the ceiling to the floor [Again, Mongo can, but he has mad skills].-Not paying attention to the principle of bedding top down, center out. Another advantage is that the polyisocyanurate core of foam boards is waterproof. Cement board is the industry standard when it comes to tile substrates and the most preferred among professionals when installing porcelain or ceramic tile. Take care to cut the KERDI membrane to the appropriate size and apply it to the wall, ensuring that it is properly adhered and that the edges are sealed with KERDI sealant. Allow the adhesive to cure for the amount of time recommended by the adhesives manufacturer. Then you can apply a thin layer of KERDI-FIX to the board, the membrane over top . With that said, lets take a look at the importance of choosing the right tile substrate, the options you have, and which tile underlayment material you should choose Kerdi Board or cement board? 173 upvotes. Most cement-based thin-set mortars are suitable; however, it is important to check the manufacturers instructions to ensure that the product is approved for use with Schluter systems. Creative, C'mon over for a beer! To get the most protection from the cement board, it should be installed in a way that ensures it is waterproof, in addition to being secured properly with the right adhesive and screws. Why you use cement board? Kerdi board is a kind of waterproofer because these kinds of boards are made of XPS foam. Unlike cement boards, you can bend this material without it breaking. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1','ezslot_24',166,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-1-0');If cement board is not waterproof, it can negatively impact the integrity of the tile that is installed on top of it, and can lead to a variety of issues. Once you have determined the type of thinset, its important to also consider the weather conditions during installation. ), Minimising the environmental effects of my dyson brain, Finite abelian groups with fewer automorphisms than a subgroup. What precautions should I take installing tile on a backerboard in an area surrounded by cement? Can you remove tile from Kerdi membrane? It fell right off? I'm guessing he put a 2x6 across for the curb? There is definitely skill & planning required to doit right. By clicking Post Your Answer, you agree to our terms of service, privacy policy and cookie policy. When applying the thin-set, it should be applied in such a way that it fully fills any empty space between the Tile and Schluter product and is solid enough to support the weight of the tiles being installed. You troweled on thinset combing it out then pressed the Kerdi into place? Home Improvement Stack Exchange is a question and answer site for contractors and serious DIYers. The type of bonding mortar used to apply KERDI must be suitable for the substrate and must penetrate and engage the membrane fleece. Thanks. Kerdi-Shower-T/-TS/-TT is a prefabricated sloped shower tray with integrated Kerdi waterproofing. After priming, use an approved adhesive to adhere the KERDI membrane to the drywall, making sure the edges are well sealed and joints are tight.if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[468,60],'remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4','ezslot_12',156,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-medrectangle-4-0'); A successful installation of KERDI requires well-prepared surfaces and a proper application, so take the time to properly prime the drywall before installation. I will say that to is easier to put the membrane over drywall than cement board. After today's tutorial, you'll gain the confidence to transform your old bathroom into a new space. I simply sponge off the excess. You absolutely need to include some sort of substrate (cement board, green board, regular drywall) with the Schluter-Kerdi waterproofing kit. To put things into perspective, consider that a tile floor is made up of three layers: the subfloor, the underlayment, and the tile surface you walk on. Now there's nothing particularly wrong with fiber-cementit's just not my first choice. It is a topical waterproofing layer that is put over the substrate to keep water from getting to the wood frame and nails. Why are physically impossible and logically impossible concepts considered separate in terms of probability? I would fear leaks in all corners of this shower. Then cement, sand and water are mixed together to a crumbly consistency and floated over the lath to form a flat surface. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-box-3','ezslot_2',173,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-box-3-0');Yes, you can put Kerdi membrane over cement board. Stack Exchange network consists of 181 Q&A communities including Stack Overflow, the largest, most trusted online community for developers to learn, share their knowledge, and build their careers. Kerdi Board is suitable for a number of interior applications. http://www.schluter.com/schluter-us/en_US/Shower-System/KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/Schluter%C2%AE-KERDI-SHOWER-KIT/p/KERDI_SHOWER-KIT, We've added a "Necessary cookies only" option to the cookie consent popup. We sponge water onto the cement board. The best answers are voted up and rise to the top, Not the answer you're looking for? We use a pump action garden sprayer and its usually dry by the time we clean the sprayer. Waterproofing cement board is relatively simple and there are several different waterproofing products available. Too little, and the kerdi will never show you gray, no matter how you sweat. Sloped Shower Tray KST1220/1525 - The Home Depot. How do I align things in the following tabular environment? If you want to go to the extra effort of putting the membrane over drywall, there is no need to use greenboard. What Is the Difference Between 'Man' And 'Son of Man' in Num 23:19? The shower tray eliminates the need for a mortar bed. For indoor projects and gypsum board, thinset with a latex acrylic modifier is ideal. It is easier to cut than cement board, it is mold resistant, and it has a built-in moisture barrier. Browse other questions tagged, Start here for a quick overview of the site, Detailed answers to any questions you might have, Discuss the workings and policies of this site. MAPEI makes products for each step of the remodel process, giving you a single source solution, and only one phone number to call if you need assistance! That was not a fault of the Kerdi, or the installation. Kerdi is also used as shower lining, as required in IRC Section P2709.2 and IPC Section 417.5.2, over concrete, mortar, tile backerboard, expanded polystyrene foam board, prefabricated polystyrene shower trays, curb and ramp, gypsum board and masonry substrates." So, you can choose what board you want in your shower when using Kerdi. First, it's super lightweight compared with the rest. Once all areas have been properly waterproofed, the walls can be tiled and grouted to create a waterproof surface. Politique d'Utilisation des Cookies de Houzz. To subscribe to this RSS feed, copy and paste this URL into your RSS reader. Required fields are marked *. This makes Kerdi Board suitable for a wide variety of interior applications, including kitchen countertops. Do the prefab Schluter niches like the double unit 12 by 28shelf have a built in pitch to the bottom and middle shelves to drainoff water as shown in niche that you built in that thread? Underlayment is designed to smooth out uneven areas of the subfloor and form a rigid layer that prevents the flooring from bending. The waterproof membrane isn't a substitute for the substrate. These multifunctional tile substrate and building panels are thus perfect for creating bonded waterproofing assemblies with tile coverings. Set ceramic and stone tile over the KERDI membrane with unmodified thin-set mortar, including large format tiles. It worked well - just like wallpapering. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. Cross your fingers and hope it's all OK. Not the best Kerdi Showcase. Hello D Zak! Needed to interject a little "amateur humor. RedGard can be applied to cement board panels in two ways: Roll it on the wall with a 3/4-inch nap roller or spray it on the wall. Look at it this way; Withe Kerdi, you either trust it or you don't. (3ft-3in wide). x 5-ft. and 3 x 5-ft. sheets of cement board are sized for efficient use around bathtubs and showers. One of the company says they are going to apply kerdi membrane on the drywall, then tiles onto the kerdi membrane, and as such as cement backboard would not be required. A lot of folks like using cement board but it's heavy and requires a waterproofing membrane over it. Cement boards are typically capable of withstanding larger amounts of water, while a Schlter system is designed to hold up well only in dry conditions. if(typeof ez_ad_units!='undefined'){ez_ad_units.push([[728,90],'remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2','ezslot_25',167,'0','0'])};__ez_fad_position('div-gpt-ad-remodelormove_com-mobile-leaderboard-2-0');Waterproofing should be done prior to the installation of any tile including behind the shower tile. The cement board needs to be clean, free of debris, and dry. However if installed on drywall it is only protecting one side. The colour is different. When installed, Kerdi Board creates a substrate that is level, flat, square, plumb, and dimensionally stable. Additionally, all seams should be sealed with Kerdi Fix and covered with fleece. First, you would waterproof with your favorite liquid waterproofing membrane of . To create a watertight shower assembly, we installed Schluter's Kerdi membrane over the drywall, just as we would for tile.Write by:. Why is there a voltage on my HDMI and coaxial cables? Schulter Ditra is manufactured by Schluter Systems and is a 1/8 thick polyethylene uncoupling membrane that is specifically designed for tile installations. With Kerdi Board you get to enjoy an effective product that is lightweight, easy to cut, waterproof, and leaves behind no dust! If your going to do the job do it right, and give professional advice pls. This feature makes building the base structure much easier and more cost . Fiber cement board is available in 1/4-inch and 1/2-inch thicknesses. I've never had a failure. Regardless, cement board is a great, trusted tile substrate that will work well on both walls and floors. How do I connect these two faces together? When having to put it up on the wall or measure it for size, you will find that you can get the exact measurements you need without much trouble. builder, anti-builder, rebuilder -- Retired Moderator. If he did the framing for the shower, then in order to measure for it correctly, he would need to know how thick the tile is so that he can avoid exactly this problem. Both may be effective substrates, but Kerdi Board boasts significant advantages.